And so we fast forward to now and I gather she was a speaker at this years’ IMAT's (International Make-up Artist Trade Show), and I didn’t really think anything of it – after all she’s been on TV plenty of times offering a ‘real girl’ insight into how to apply a variety of make-up looks. But then I start noticing on Twitter grumblings from "proper" make-up artists, up in arms wondering why on earth she was there and a general grumbling about promoting "amateurism". I feel this is greatly unfair to Lauren who has never professed to be a professional make-up artist, but has made the most of the opportunities being an amateur has given her. It’s unfair to victimise her on Twitter so publicly in my view - is it so hard to consider you're talking about real people? Any valid points the Tweeter had were lost in a sea of what sounded like sour grapes.
To get to the heart of the matter, I can totally understand why it is a little galling to a trained professional to have an untrained You Tuber speaking at a Make-up Artist Trade Show. It doesn't take a great reach though to understand why LL was there (she is immensely popular, with a no airs and graces attitude and reaches out to ‘real’ girls helping them achieve make up looks in a way that is understandable and easy to follow). But, pro make-up artists seem to struggle to get their head round the concept of make-up applications as genuine and of real interest to thousands and thousands of people who don’t aspire to be make-up artists themselves – they just want to do their make-up nicely!
The IMATS event was open to all – and not just trained MUAs, therefore it makes perfect sense that a speaker who appeals to the ‘masses’ was there. I think this is the bit that causes professionals the biggest problem. Their industry is changing. There seems to be, broadly speaking, a complete inability to understand a) the role of bloggers and b) the fact that they are here to stay, even from those MUA's who blog. The lines are blurring slightly. We still know a great MUA when we see one, but we don't necessarily want to learn their techniques that seem impossible for us to try at home and we do want techniques that are accessible, given to us by friendly, warm people. It would seem that the fact that the IMAT's is open to non MUA's and that they are being catered for seems to be rattling a few cages. And maybe they are right, maybe a trade event should be for industry professionals only, but the fact is, it's not. And the untrained and the bloggers and the LL fans aren't going away.
So there we go. Now back to the Twitter unfollowing of the moaning MUA who is of course, entitled to her view. But put something on Twitter and the person who is the target of discontent is likely to see it...and see it Lauren Luke did. I kind of liked her response which said it all:
"Thank you for reinforcing my belief which is that people like you are the reason why people like me are successful!" An elegant response to being called ‘mediocre and amateur’.
On a personal note I'd like to reiterate I'm not particularly a fan of Lauren Luke's work, but as a human being who has created a storm of interest in make-up and made it real and attainable for thousands of You Tube viewers, she gets my vote.
Totally agree with this, though i love Lauren Luke, even if i didn't it seems to me that the pro MUA's are just jealous that someone without pro training is doing better than they are.
ReplyDeleteHate when people can't just be happy for each others achievements! Great post!! xx
Wow charlie, well said. I totally agree with everything you said. I have not really seen much of LL to be honest but if i could of attended IMATS then i would of loved to have seen her. x
ReplyDeleteWell said Charlie!
ReplyDeletewell said Charlie!
ReplyDeleteI'm the same as you, I never feel attracted to her videos but she's definitely accomplished so much and I agree with what you said :) Not sure her response was a slight dig at herself, I reckon she would've succeeded either way!
ReplyDeleteWould just like to say, great post. I have just recently found your blog and like your honest approach. I too wouldn't say I was a particular fan of LL, but like her approach to what she does and the fact that she doesn't intimidate anyone wanting to learn a bit more about makeup and to be honest that's exactly how it should be. I am a MUA and therapist and would hate to think I would intimidate anyone because of this. I get so much of a buzz from just passing on a tip to a women I might be standing next to in topshop looking at their makeup - as I did last week. Thats what we are trained to do, not put down anyone who we don't think isn't quite good enough or who hasn't earned their place. oops that was a bit of a rant on my first comment, must apologise, but have just completed tax return - enough to get anyone grouchy haha.
ReplyDeletePromise to comment without rant next time x
Well said girl. Seems like a bit of jealousy to me.
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't say Im a fan of LL and I don't really watch her videos (mainly because I don't really watch that much YT I prefer blogs), but Ive got the greatest respect for a normal down to earth girl, that's managed to turn her life around and gain a nice future for herself and her son.
She started out with nothing, just a love for make up and a talent for applying it. She's reached out to loads of normal girls that don't want to be a make up artist and apply make up on other people, but simply want to learn to do their own make up better (like you said).
The girls done good and I actually did watch one of her videos a while ago about her new house that's she bought. She was so damn proud and excited and so she should be.
From my point of view, as a Pro MUA, and someone who knew Lauren from before she even had a youtube account, when she was selling makeup on eBay, I don't particularly like or loathe her either way. I think she was in the right place at the right time, and has done well for herself. I also think that someone has labelled her an 'expert' and that little bit of knowledge has exploded into an assumption that she knows what she's talking about. Not necessarily the case. We had a good discussion on it a year or two back when she posted up a couple of videos, one promoting the use of baby wipes for makeup removal, as anything else was a waste of money (eeeeek!!!!) and another showing how to clean brushes, but with a horrendous technique that would have her put in front of a firing squad for the dreadful hygiene practice involved!
ReplyDeleteWhat I can see, (and have seen in the private Pro area on MAF) are why trained/qualified MUAs are, to be frank, hacked off that she's got where she has without a scrap of training, and probably only made up half a dozen other people's faces.
There is a massive difference between putting makeup on your own face to putting it on someone else's, and controversial as this will sound, it really aint the same! She does a really good job of putting makeup on her own face, and she has very pretty eyes to work on, but from the times when I've seen her putting makeup on someone else's face, the 'talent' (?!) isn't quite there...
I 'get' why she was there and invited, and that's down to how the audience for the IMATS has changed.
In days gone by, all trade shows were for pros only, you had to have proof of your profession, much like applying for pro discounts at the likes of MAC. Not available to anyone, only those in the industry. Now though, as the industry is changing, and the likes of youtube and blogs are making Makeup more 'available' to non pros, so these trade shows are also changing. Because of that, the speakers have to change to meet the needs of the audience.
I wasn't able to get to the IMATS this year, enforced pregnancy bedrest, but watching Twitter, reading MAF, and Facebook, the way people have visited IMATS has fallen into 2 'camps', with Pros going for specific items, and to attend the various speeches and demos, and non pros going to buy 'cheap' makeup.
Okay, so everyone isn't like that, there are those who fall into both camps, but as a relatively 'broad' idea, that's how it is coming across.
I think the IMATS controversy this year isn't about pro versus bloggers, more pro versus non-pro. And that's what makes it a bit sad. Maybe a day that was exclusive to Pros only, then a day for the general public???
Even I got an invite to IMATS. Just because I'm registered with Illamasqua.
ReplyDeleteSome of these MUAs are way too 'up themselves' to use the vernacular. I don't want to look as I've had a professional slathering muck over me. I'd rather do it myself. I have seen ONE LL tutorial and got a very good tip from it.
It's only warpaint. A bit of an advance on the old spit'n'polish. Even Nicole Kidman said she did her own make-up on her latest film....
Sounds like LL can give as good as she gets. These hoity-toity types may be queen-bees in their own superficial world but Lauren Luke came back with a decent retort that says it all. Who wants to deal with such snobs?
I remember when I was first on twr being re-tweeted a tweet from someone which was complete sour grapes about LL having the audacity to be given a column on the Guardian newspaper. The vitriol which was apparent in those 145 characters put me off twr for a long time. To me anyone who make makeup unscary and more open to all deserves all the success they get. After all isn't it Francois Nars who says it is only makeup. Thanks for always saying what I am thinking. I'm voting for Devon this year ;-) Jan xxxx
ReplyDeleteI found your site from WelshBeautyBlog's link on twitter - its a really good post.
ReplyDeleteIt's actually quite interesting as this is one of the reasons I haven't been to IMATS.
I want to go and the prospect of buying tons of makeup goodies fills me with complete joy. The possibility of being surrounded by rude, bitchy, elitist makeup artists doesn't. Its bad enough on a counter when they're snooty or condescending (which happens way too often) but I couldn't tolerate that en masse.
I'm just sad people can't be more supportive of those doing well. Not a massive LL fan either, but hats off to her for doing so well and making makeup more accessible to some women who until seeing her videos would have been too scared to try any new things.
Bx
after re reading my post can i just add when i said i was looking at their make up, I meant the topshop range and the women then started a conversation and I gave her some advice, I wasn't really helping the cause there. it sounded like i had looked at their makeup and then decided to give some advice - whoops! note to self - must read comment back before posting x
ReplyDeleteFWIW, 'Famous/Celebrity' makeup artists are often snooty with those who aren't well known, or who don't work in the same genre as themselves... I know, I've been on the receiving end of 'I'm terribly famous, you're not, therefore I need to be served before you and get given tonnes of free stuff, so get out of my way lowlife'....!!
ReplyDeleteJealousy is right! Maybe these 'proper' makeup artist' are not getting the gigs or recognition they feel entitled to. They need to realize, there is a reason for that. Their talents aside, attitude is EVERYTHING!!!
ReplyDeleteThree Cheers for Lauren for 'making it.'
well said! I completely agree. Everything is changing thanks to the internet and people are just going to have to accept that :) x
ReplyDeleteI witnessed the same exchange and was shocked with the behavior of the MUA. Even if she is well known, I'm sure attitude has an influence (actually, I'm sure it does). I was planning on writing a similar but blog post on a slightly different angle. But thank you for putting this out there.
ReplyDeleteAgain, another example of women putting down other women, so unnecessary. There is enough good and 'fame' if you even want that to go around.
Firstly, thank you to everyone who has commented so far. I really appreciate the time taken. I want to take the time to reply specifically to a few comments.
ReplyDeleteFirstly, Wendy, thank you and welcome, I totally understood your first post!
Sam, thanks for your considered comment, I was hoping you might! I think we agree essentially don't we? I don't think Lauren professes to be a MUA (I could be wrong) and I don't think she tries to make a living out of making up other people, so I'm not sure the argument of the pro's over at your place stands as it's not a stance she takes. Please though, do correct me if I'm wrong. It may well be a label others put on her, or a general assumption that she thinks she is, but I don't think LL herself would claim to be so. I also agree that on reflection it does seem to be more pro vs non pro, rather than bloggers vs. pro. The industry is changing and whether it's right or wrong is an issue up for debate of course, but it is regardless a fact, that we agree on if I read you correctly? x
Jaljen, your last paragraph in particular rouses a hearty cheer from me.
Jan, I'm sorry but not at all surprised at the tweet you mention. Devon! x
Glossgalore, welcome! I think although it's easy to be put off, it wouldn't stop me from attending IMATS, I think as with all walks of life really, there are those of who are snooty and "above it all", its not just the pro MUA's. Lord knows I've come across one or two bloggers with similar attitudes. I'm sure there were some great friendly un-snobby MUA's at the IMATS this year and I hope in fact the bad ones were in the minority. Don't get me started on counter staff though!
Thanks everyone!
I think it's just a question of everyone getting used to each other...MUAs are now experiencing what the beauty press did a couple of years ago and while editors now live and let live, they certainly didn't like 'cheeky bloggers' to start with trying to 'write about beauty' lol! Most bloggers in my experience look up to make up artists as great resources and as a source of information about how to get looks etc, and I'm sure the last thing bloggers intended was to tread on the toes of sensitivities. Lauren Luke has her own place in the world and was clearly invited by IMATS to cater (misguidedly maybe) to the blogger audience that IMATS knew would be there. If anyone needs to rethink, it's IMATS. I don't think a single blogger would have cared less if she wasn't there, but it was obviously the IMATS perception that we hang off her every word. So, not sure if it's anything at all between MUAs and bloggers but misperception by IMATS on catering to what they thought their new audience wanted.
ReplyDeleteYou'd have had more respect from me if you'd just posted the MUA you were talking about instead of encouraging a frenzy of DM's from those wondering who the hell you ARE talking about.
ReplyDeleteWe're all entitled to an opinion and she just voiced hers the same way you are doing now - you just happen to disagree with her, that's all. She's a lovely person who doesn't deserve to be made the subject of a blog post. I don't think she has a 'bad attitude' at all - her blog is a great read and very inspiring. I love the posts she does when she's on shoots and she's very likeable 'in real life' too.
Yes, Lauren's 'normal' - we hear this all the frigging time (give it a rest, already), but a paying professional attending the show, in my opinion, has every right to be a bit peeved if some You Tube sensation they've never heard of is headlining the biggest make up artistry event in the UK.
You say...
"We still know a great MUA when we see one, but we don't necessarily want to learn their techniques that seem impossible for us to try at home and we do want techniques that are accessible, given to us by friendly, warm people."
This statement makes no sense. Thousands of people copy the looks that the Chapman sisters (Pixiwoo) upload onto You Tube with no problem and they're JUST as approachable and warm as Lauren Luke, despite being at the top of their game and being PROFESSIONAL MUA's. Some of the comments left on your post are depicting the pros are flippin' demons or something!
I went to a few talks at last year's IMATS and was able to understand the looks the PROS were doing on the models. It's make up, takes a lot of skill but isn't brain surgery! Practise makes perfect and the pros sure have practised!!! The talks were actually pretty interesting I'm glad I went along as I had the attitude you seem to have have, that they'd be complicated and too technical to understand.
They're (Pixiwoo) fab women who continually display their artistic skills through their make up, without resorting to the same bland looks which I recall LL does. The Chapman's gave a talk yesterday. I didn't go but I'd listen to advice given by them over LL any day. She's not an expert and doesn't necessarily KNOW what she's taking about.
Fair play to LL, she got lucky (it could have been any other UK YT'er, but it was her) and she's set herself up! Hell, if any of us were given that kind of opportunity we'd grab it with both hands too.
Three years ago, the UK IMATS weren't being attended by us 'normal folk' in the numbers that they are now - fact! It was my third time attending this year and the crowd looked reminiscent of that you'd get at The Clothes Show! I had to double check I was at The IMATS!
I can genuinely empathise with the pros not wanting this important event in their calenders to be 'watered down' in order to please a crowd of You Tube and beauty blogger fans. I'd be pissed too if I was a pro! The show was set up for PROs and the focus should STAY on pros.
We can't ignore the influence certain You Tubers and Bloggers have and that's fine, but they cater for a different audience altogether. I don't think it should BE about us. I think today the IMATS was open to PROs only, in the morning or something. Why on the last day, when all the good stuff sold out by 10am yest?! Nil point!
Did you see the scenes at the LA IMATS when that Dulce Candy YT'er arrived? Really?!! Is that what the IMATS is about? LOL I don't think so.
I speak as a fellow beauty blogger who despite loving make up, was bored after two hours at IMATS yesterday. Half of the stands didn't "apply" to me and my every day make up wearing routine, and that's fine. I KNEW what to expect. I think the show SHOULD stick to its original format and not forget WHO it's supposed to represent.
BBB has hit the point that I couldn't quite put my finger on - it's the assumption that all bloggers/Ytubers are the same, like the same things, and all idolise Lauren Luke that narks me a bit. I've seen non-MUAs being just as less than impressed by Ms Luke on Twitter and other places.
ReplyDeleteShe's done well for herself and she seems nice, so good luck to her. Would I want to go and see a talk/demo by her? No - her make-up looks just aren't my style.
BBB, thanks for your comment and yes, I agree, its IMATs that need the Rethink!
ReplyDeleteGrace, absolutely agree, thats why I tried to comment that I wasn't a great fan so that people didn't assume this was a fan girl rant, but likewise, I think she seems nice enough.
Vex. Thanks for your long comment. Firstly, I haven't had any slurry of Dm's wanting to know who I'm talking about, of course I realised that was a possiblity, but I was just determined not to say a name. Imagine if I had have done, then I maybe I would have had your respect but on the whole I'd imagine I'd have a lot more people telling me how outrageous it was to call someone out publically like that, especially in light as moaning about that kind of thing is what my post is concerning in part. The purpose of the post wasn't to slag someone off, but to open up a discussion about pros and non pros and the relationship, in particular concerning the IMATs.
You have the benefit of knowing this person, and another person has told me similar about how lovely she is, all I have to go on is what I see though.
Also we agree, as stated in my post that a pro MUA may indeed have a point. "To get to the heart of the matter, I can totally understand why it is a little galling to a trained professional to have an untrained You Tuber speaking at a Make-up Artist Trade Show." And I also agree with you re tarring all pros with the same brush as I replied to a commenter up there a bit, there are good and bad in all walks of life and to tar all with the same brush is nonsense.
I have tried to clear up, if not in the article (which I thought I had), but in the comments that I agree, the issue is with the IMATS format and not with Lauren Luke or any individual pro, which is why I don't like to see people moaning about LL, when the issue is with the organisers. If that makes sense. I think a pro- day and a non-pro day would be a great idea...
Really good post Charlie, whatever your feeling regarding LL and professional MUA's no one could argue that you were doing more than putting it out there for discussion. And yep maybe IMATS should be a trade show for industry insiders only but whilst the organisers of IMATS are keen to cash in on the purses of make up addicts then pro's just have to accept that the people who organise their trade show have sold them out and the only way to deal with that is to vote with your feet; don't exhibit or attend if you feel IMATS should be for make up professionals only. Its what happened with a lot of the trade shows I attend for my day job and eventually it gets results even if it does feel like cutting off your nose to spite your face. As everyone knows these shows aren't actually about the industry they are all about making money for the organisers and they will allow access to anyone and everyone who is prepared to part with hard cash for a ticket. If IMATS closed it's doors to anyone without a professional make up related qualification or job title (and you could argue that award winning beauty blogger would qualify!) then soon enough someone else would have set up a cosmetics show for us beauty addicts and all the big names would be there to hit their target market in a very cost effective way.
ReplyDeleteMy name is Aly Hazlewood and I am the make up artist at the center of this apparent furore. This blog post has just been brought to my attention, and as a result, I am posting my blog article about the issue by way of reply.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.thetruthaboutbeauty.co.uk/event/lauren-luke-at-imats-or-alienating-the-pros.html
My issue is very clearly with IMATS, and those of you that are making accusations of 'sour grapes' are quite simply, wrong.
I would have appreciated the opportunity to address what was being said about me at the time this post was written, but was not afforded that luxury.